The Era of the Clipper Ships / Bibliography / Maritime Links / Home / McKay Clan / Directory / Introduction / Tradewinds
Letterbag
12/05/03 - ECS - There is both Email and post correspondence here that has come in over the past few years and we encourage both and might as well call them all letters for the sake of convenience here. We have gotten some great letters. A long lost poem concerning the Clipper Oriental has surfaced thanks to a maritime history enthusiast of the clipper ship era out there who's g.g. Grandfather who sailed tall ships was given the Oriental's Ship's Log by another sailor. Many of the letters are from descendants of the early shipbuilders, captains and crew whose family history is intertwined with my own. I find a personal excitement whenever I get these letters. Many of these letters come with specific requests seeking information concerning certain ships and I am only too willing to oblige them with this information if I can find it in my possession and Email them off the information they so urgently seek. Sometimes I just don't know and offer to get back to them at some future time when I find something out that I feel can be of use to them. I realize my limitations in this regard so why not just post these requests for information on the Letterbag Page where it belongs and make the site a more interactive just like I said I was going to do in the first place? That way anyone who had any information about the quest could Email the information off to the letter writer directly. So without anymore procrastination here is our Letterbag Page. - Don Ross
____________________________________________
Dear Don,
Thank you for your Newsletter. I admire your ambitious goals. I have been giving serious thought to similar ideas. This Fall I did a delivery on the Bark Europa From New York to Bermuda. It blew fifty knots and we had a great sail. I got hooked. My family and I just got back from a three week trip through the Panama Canal and up the west coast of Central America, also on the Europa. I can't understand why we can't have a US clipper ship. My Internet access is down at the moment but I will be visiting your site soon.
Yours,
Capt. Ray Williamson
Maine Windjammer Cruises
Camden, Maine
ECS - Thanks Ray, I hope you like the Maine Tradewinds Page and the placement of your Maine Windjammer cruises ad and link. I liked your card and turned it into the Letterbag picture. - Don Ross
____________________________________________
Hi, I am an avid collector of Old Spice products, particularly
those items with ships imprinted on them.
So far I have found six clipper ships used in the Old Spice items:The Grand
Turk, The Friendship, the Mt. Vernon, The Flying Cloud, The Magic, and The
Frigate Essex. In the past two days, I have been making up a booklet for my
own use, not to affend any copyrights, of the ship The Flying Cloud. From
your site, I have found all the information I needed to make a 44 page booklet,
adding a few notes of my own to tie it in with the after shave decanter, "The
Flying Cloud Ship's Flask Decanter (made from 1985-1988. (Picture attached
with a model Flying Cloud I just bought at an antique shop.) I hope I will
be able to at least find a paragraph or two about the other "Old Spice"
ships?? Their shaving mugs having the Grand Turk and The Friendship pictured.
The bottles and even their boxes have the remaining above listed ships on
them.
This is so interesting to me now being age 72, and having been a US Navy photographer
1949-52.
I now have time to use the internet, but am hesitant about buying any books
just to make myself an addition to my collection. I will appreciate any suggestions
you might have for me.. Thanks for listening... Sincerely, Charley Sayre Newark
Ohio
______________________________________________
Greetings,
Many years ago, my father, an antique enthusiast, obtained two very old matching
pictures.
He was probably more interested in the frames but the pictures but we will
never know as he died in 1976. The pictures came to me upon the death of my
mother in 1999.
I have enclosed few photos of these pictures for your possible entertainment.
The ship name is "Challenge New York".
They appear to be original water color and pen and ink drawings.
If there is any interest, I can make better copies for you.
Best regards,
Skip Jackson at rhjackson@isd.net
Ahoy there Skip,
These two pictures are, indeed, paintings of the extreme clipper Challenge built by William H. Webb in New York that Captain Robert Waterman sailed around Cape Horn to San Francisco in 1851. Quite a find! Certainly more valuable than the frames. - Don Ross
____________________________________________
From: Link Family
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 17:56:24 -0800
To: Don Ross
Subject: Robert Waterman
Hello Mr. Ross,
My name is Kathy Link and I am a computer/multimedia teacher at Fairfield High School in Fairfield, Ca.
Fairfield is planning it's Centennial celebration on December 12, 2003, and I am preparing to have my students create a multimedia video project about Robert and Cordelia Waterman.
I want to thank you for your magnificent website on the Clipper Ships. I immediately went to Amazon.com and ordered several books, including the one you suggested by Mr. Whipple on The Challenge, and I am very excitedto get the students started. A news reporter from our local paper, the Daily Republic, will be coming to our class tomorrow (Monday, March 31) to do an article to promote our project.
I am fascinated by your account of Robert Waterman. What a story! Yes, it would be great if Hollywood or the history channel did something about the clipper ships. In the meantime, I would like to make our small contribution. We are planning a "Cordelia Heritage Days" celebration on April 27th, and I will have students videotape the activities. We are also going to try to interview any descendants, as well as the current residents in Robert Waterman's house.
Would it be possible for me to use some of your photos, and refer to your work throughout our documentary? As a teacher I am not sure just how to go about this, but I would never use any of your work without your permission, and of course I would advertise and promote your website. I thought that we might be able to help raise funds for Project Sea Witch too.
I know I am asking a lot, but I hope we will be able to establish a partnership. I look forward to hearing from you.
Kathy Link, Computer/Multimedia teacher
Fairfield High School, Room A25
205 E. Atlantic Ave.
Fairfield, CA 94533
___________________________________
{ My reply }
Ahoy there Kathy,
Please feel free to link up with my Web site in any way you like for the Centennial celebration on December 13, 2003 and feel free to use the pictures. Keep me posted as to your activities. This amazing story about Robert Waterman would, indeed, make a very good movie and I do entertain high hopes that somehow this Web site will help to bring about such an undertaking. I am actually contemplating writing the screenplay myself and will probably do so. Wish me luck!
___________________________________
God Bless You Mr. Ross!
We actually spent yesterday on a field trip, filming local areas of historical value. We went to the sites of settlers who were here before Waterman, including his friend, Capt. Ritchie. Unfortunately the Waterman home has been vastly remodeled, but if you want me to send you a picture of it, I will be happy to.
YES, I wish you much success in the screenplay! Also, I had the local newspaper, the Daily Republic, do an article about our project, and the owner of the downtown theatre called and is willing to show our in his theatre during the Centennial week! Way cool! Also, I think I may have his (or Cordelia's) piano. I bought it many years ago from the people who were living in the Waterman estate. It was buried way back in the barn and covered with years of dust, and my husband carefully restored it. It definitely is from the right time period. Probably will never know for sure.
My students will be very happy, but I also had them learn that they should write letters asking for permission, and I am currently grading their papers. I will choose some of the best to send to you.
Also, would you know where I could get a ship model kit for either the SEA WITCH or the CHALLENGE?
My father-in-law has built several, and needs a new project. Also, some people in the area who have more free time than I do are working on starting up a local museum, and if this ever comes to pass, we should have models of these ships in the museum. I have searched on the Internet and only found the Sea Witch, but already built, from Piel Craftsman. Hopefully with your connections you can guide me.
Thank you again for your help.
Sincerely - Kathy Link
_____________________________________________
I hope you can and will help me. At one
time I had a link to a site that had a picture of the above, St David. My
GGgrandparents came on this ship from Scotland in 1868. The ship was later
altered and became the Phoenician. I've been searching but haven't come up
with the site.
Thank you for any help.
Mary Thompson, Las Cruces, NM / maryt@zianet.com
____________________________________________
Dear Don Ross,
I have been browsing your web page and wonder if you can help me locate a
piece of information. I am currently working on a chapter for a book
for the Haffenreffer Museum in Bristol, R.I.; the subject is Northwest Coast
Indian canoe models and Alaskan kayak models. I am particularly interested
in the artifacts collected by Boston and Salem sailors involved in the maritime
fur trade on the Northwest Coast that comprised the first leg of the China
trade in the late 18th and early 19th century. (This work started about 20
years ago when I lived in Salem, Mass. and worked at the Peabody Museum.)
Canoe and kayak models were popular souvenirs of this trade. I have seen a
number of glancing references to the idea that the sharp prow of American
clipper ships might, in fact, have been inspired by the similar prow of Northwest
Coast Indian dugout cedar canoes. Certainly lots of Bostonians saw these canoes,
both in action on the Northwest Coast, and in dozens of models which came
back in the four decades before the rise of the clipper. that the link is
a positive one, only that the potential for it exists. I'd like to mention
this in my chapter, but won't do it unless I have a good source to ref. (and
one from the nineteenth century would be especially nice!). I'd appreciate
knowing if you have any thoughts on this subject. I teach maritime history
and literature in a college program called "Sea Semester" at the
Sea Education Association in Woods Hole. You can contact me by e-mail, mail,
or phone.
Thanks for your help,
Mary Malloy, Ph.D.
Sea Education Assocition
Woods Hole, MA 02543 / mmalloy@sea.edu
_______________
Hello Mary,
There is a wonderful book that has the information that you seek concerning
references to Northwest Coast Indian canoe models and Alaskan kayak models
that I know of that was written by Alexander Laing, a noted maritime historian.
The name of the book is "American Ships" by Alexander Laing. Published
by American Heritage Press, copyright 1971. Library of Congress Catalog Card
Number 76-149727. The information you want is in Chapter 0ne. Any good library
should have a copy of this book. Good luck with your research! Happy sails,
Don Ross.
_______________
Dear Don,
You are a peach! Thank you so much for your help. I'll let you know when the
book comes out. With best regards,
Mary Malloy
______________________________________
Dear Don,
Know of any bibliographic sources or links for the mid-19th century clipper,
CALIFORNIA ?
thanks thad koza
=====
Thad Koza, 24 Mary Street, Newport, RI 02840 USA
The 2002 calendar features: La GRANVILLAISE (cover), CUAUHTEMOC, CALIFORNIAN,
STAD AMSTERDAM, FRIDTJOF NANSEN, GUNILLA, STATSRAAD LEHMKUHL ,ALMA, SUSAN
CONSTANT, CHRISTIAN RADICH, PICTON CASTLE, VICTORY CHIMES. Reserve copies
now!
Send e-mail to: thadkoza@yahoo.com
http://www.tallshipsinternational.com, or: http://sites.netscape.net/thadkoza
ECS - If anyone out there can be of any assistance to Thad please get in touch with him. - Don Ross
______________________________________
Really enjoyed the information you provided
about the development of the Clipper Ships. Our family has a wooden model
of the "Oriental" which is at least 100 years old, left in my Great
Grandfather's law office in Seattle. It is about 4 long plus bow sprit fully
rigged without sail. I am curious to find someone who might tell me more about
it, possibly offer ideas for evaluation of it and repair of it (rigging has
suffered somewhat of the years and some spars are disconnected. Model is in
Oregon.
Best Regards
Tom W. Rueter
North Star Maritime Agencies
Tel: (907) 263-0110
Fax: (907) 272-8755
E-Mail: tomr@northstarak.com
Website: www.northstarak.com
_______________________________________
Don,
Great work! Fascinating! In early October I'll ride the Star Flyer from Athens
to Thailand -- 5 weeks. I'm doing a book and computer database about the Irish
immigrants to my home town, Casper WY. A big job: Over 500 names, and information
hard to gather. I have ship arrival information (dates & ship names &
ship photos & ship history and detail) for many, mostly those I've found
in naturalization rolls.I found your site in a search for travel times for
sailing vessels from Queenstown (Cobh) to Boston or NYC, especially around
1856. I wonder too if clipper ships were much used in passenger service. I
have a report that a schooner did the trip to NYC in 13 days and that 11 days
was the record in 1856. I can't believe that; if the time is right, it must
have been a clipper. From American Clipper Ships site, I learned that in 1855
the Donald McKay, leaving from Boston, sighted Cape Clear, very near Queenstown,
in the 12th day. My trip in a 60 ft schooner from NYC to Azores to Kilrush
(on the Shannon River) took a month.I intend to read your site over next few
months and am sure I'll come back to it again and again. I believe that a
site search tool would help users to answerspecific questions such as I've
posed above. Again, Congratulations and Thanks for your Effort,
Harry Ward. / anrai@ireland.com
ECS-Thanks for your kind words. Your suggestion about a "site search tool" is already in the cards for there will be a search engine on the site when "The Era of the Clipper Ships" Web site www.eraoftheclipperships.com is completed in March. - Don Ross
________________________________________
Dear Sirs,
Can you give me any bibliographical leads on Grinell & Minturn, their
ship London (ca. 1849-53) and her Captain Hebard?
Lee Wilberschied <wilberlf@email.uc.edu>
________________________________________
Hi Donald ~
I've been reading your web pages and gotten quite a few hints for my own search......my
3rd great grandfather was Stephen Smith. I'm still trying to track down where,
and exactly when he was married, but if you're interested in some of the genealogy
that I have so far, I'll gladly share it! I also have a picture of Stephen,
saved as a jpg. file if you'd like to see that.
Regards,
Dianne / Dashmom@aol.com
I'd be glad to receive any information
that you have concerning Stephen Smith and be willing to post your picture
jpg on my site. >>
here is the URL and link for my web page with a picture of Stephen Smith.....and
also one I've posted on the Stamford, CT site that has his
family "tree" from the immigrant ancestor below that. http://members.aol.com/dashmom/smith.html
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/dashmom/smith.html">Dashmom/Stephen
Smith</A>
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctfairfi/stamford/smith_data2.htm
<A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctfairfi/stamford/smith_data2.htm">
Descendants of</A>
I've also attached a copy of the picture which is on my web page, and the
"Making of America" website.......http://moa.umdl.umich.edu/moa_adv.html
.........also has a copy of the article "The Old Shipbuilders of New
York",
which was published in Harper's Monthly magazine and includes a copy of the
apprenticeship agreement between Stephen and one of his apprentices.
Dianne
______________________
ECS - The picture of Stephen Smith is now up on the site on the "Donald Mckay's Apprenticeship" Page (Page 3) that you will find on our Era of the Clipper Ships Page. - Don Ross
_________________________________________
Please could you e-mail me infomation
and pictures of the Sir john franklin clipper ship owned by James baines.
From Mrs Luke. / DAVID LUKE <luke@mercedes36.fsnet.co.uk
ECS - I have checked the Index of The Passage Makers, a likely source of the information that you seek, but can find no such ship listed. - Don Ross
_________________________________________
I'm working on expanding my grandfather's
memoirs (Samuel Lapham VI) and decided to do a search for Lapham Shipyard
(owned by Samuel Lapham IV) and found one of your pages. I have a list of
their ships and other information in the memoirs, plus I know (and have copies
of) two articles on the industry published in the Medford Historical Register.
Please send me some information on your organization and also if you are intested
in some of my records.
I have some information on the Clipper
Ships that were built by Samuel Lapham as well as some of the other ships
the yard built.
Clippers:Phantom (1852), Don Quixote (1853), Nor'wester (1854), Sancho Panza
(1855), Magnet (1856)
If you have any information on thiese ships I'd appreciate it. If you'd like
my information I'll be glad to snail mail you a copy.
Ernest E. Blevins
110 Evergreen Way
Villa Rica, Georgia
"Ernest E. Blevins" <blevins@cchat.com>
________________________
Hello Ernest, There is information about
some of the clippers that you speak of in "American Clipper Ships,"
the book by Octavius T. Howe and Frederick C. Matthews. I would think that
you are probably aware of this. Is this your source? I have paperback copies
of these Dover Books. Otherwise I would be glad to receive any new information
concerning these clippers via snail mail.
Since you are a descendant of a noted clipper ship builder I would be happy
to put you on my mailing list and send you an Era of the Clipper Ships Newsletter
from time to time. Also, if you have any good pictures of your g.g. grandfather's
clippers I would be glad to put them on the site. - Don Ross
______________________________________________
Don,
Just a quick not to tell you that your Website is truly elegant--and fascinating.
One of the very best I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot of 'em). Keep up
the good work.
Cordially,Denny Hatch
Freelance Copy/Design
Author of:
Million Dollar Mailing$
Method Marketing
2,239 Tested Secrets for
Direct Marketing Success
Contributing Editor:
Target Marketing & Catalog Success
Denny Hatch Associates, Inc.
P.O. Box 63578
Philadelphia, PA 19147
215-627-9103; fax: 215-627-6610
www.methodmarketing.com
dennyhatch@aol.com
______________________________________________
Hi, Don!
Here's a query, perhaps for ECS Letterbag page. Can anyone tell me what year
the clipper Samoset was built? I'm pretty sure it was in the 1848-1851
time frame. I know that this ship left Boston in the spring of 1852 and wound
up being wrecked at Golden Gate Strait off of San Francisco.
Thanks!Bruce Roberts / broberts@stny.rr.com
ECS - The Samoset is not listed in the Howe & Matthews book American Clipper Ships although it certainly does ring familar. It is a challenging task to try and keep track of and remember every single clipper ship that ever sailed the seas, even those that I mention in my book. If the Samoset rings a bell with anyone out there Bruce and I would like to hear about it.
______________________
I am desperate to find out what happened
to the SS Unicorn mentioned in your article The California. I believe
Cunard sold it to Aspinall and it was sold again. Can you tell me to whom
and when. My gg grandfather was reported to have arrived in Australia on it
in 1853 but I can't find its arrival here in OZ. I have been searching for
info for 12 mths now and haven't had any luck until seeing your article. Any
info would be helpful
Regards,
Diane, Brisbane, Australia
______________________
Hello Diane, I think that you have me confused with another author of "The
California." I have the http://www.eraoftheclipperships.com Web site.
I did, however, check the Index of the notable book "The Passage Makers"
and found no reference to the "SS Unicorn." So sorry that I could
not be of more assistance.
______________________
Don,
Sorry to confuse. I saw an article on your page13 " The White Collar
Route to Eldorado" about the California which mentioned the Unicorn.
See how desperate I am to find it!
Diane / coldimay@bigpond.com
_____________________
ECS - I have since gone to my copied Index Pages of Merchant Sail and to look up the SS Unicorn and as luck would have it Index page 4174 is not legible enough on the "U" listing side of the page to be of any help. So I don't really know if the SS Unicorn is listed there or not. How ironic a predicament! If anybody out there has a rare copy of this set of books I would be glad to hear of any information regarding the SS Unicorn and so would Diane. - Don Ross
_______________________________________________
Ship's Log & Poem about the tea clipper Oriental surface
Across the mighty deep,
And give the wings to traverse it
A thousand times again.
And mayest thou, As thou headest the sea,
Till thy long wanderings cease.
Be like the Patriarchal dove,
The messenger of Peace.
__________________
ECS - Poetry, Silk, Tea, Fire Crackers & Opium too! Oh my!
I received an Email this past August 25th from Emily Wilson, the gist of which follows. . . .
"Hello, I came across your Web site tonight while searching for information of the ship Oriental. I have in my possession what I believe is a ship's log for a voyage of the Oriental, leaving London on January 12th 1851 bound to Hong Kong & Canton. On the front is written "Captain Palmer", and some other writing which is illegible. My grandfather sailed tall ships and I am just starting to research the ships he sailed on. The Oriental was not one of them, but I believe he acquired this log from an old sailing friend. The log ends in New York in 1852.
"Is there any interest in this book? The old handwriting is very difficult to read, but it is fascinating and I would love to learn more about the book itself.
"Please respond, even if it is just so I can thank you for posting all that good information on your Web site."
ECS - I responded to Emily that I was delighted with her find and requested that she take pictures of the log, and Email them to me as an attached file which she did. I was then able to transcribe the poem from one of the pages. We together deduced that the log was indeed the authentic Oriental ship's log of Theodore DeWhite Palmer, the younger brother of Nathaniel Brown Palmer, who took over command of the Oriental following her first voyage. The log squares with my manuscript of the period. Emily's next Email continues.
"…This log book covers not one, but two voyages, including one which began on January 20, 1852 identified as London 'Bound to Hong Kong & Canton for the last Time.' Now I wonder where this ship served next?
"One of the items the Oriental took on as cargo in Hong Kong was Opium - a lot of Opium!
"At the end of the log for the 1851 voyage are two poems, one about the ship and one about Theodore Palmer.
"At the end of the log for 1852, is a chronicle of the historic, record setting maiden voyage of the Oriental in1850. This is where I saw the notation that the ship carried Fire Crackers in addition to Silk and Tea. . . . Next I would like to plot out the route of the voyages as the latitude and longitude was recorded each day, along with the weather and sea conditions. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you or if you learn any new facts about this ship. Thanks again. You have a right to be proud of your own shipbuilding history". - Emily Wilson
ECS - This long-lost Oriental ship's log and poem are indeed quite a historical find. The poem is most intriguing. The true author of these lofty lines is for the moment a mystery. Was Captain Theodore DeWhite Palmer the poet? If so they would reveal a poetic side to the man that I did not know he had. And I really do not know all that much about him except that he had the reputation of occasionally being a short-tempered hothead and somewhat of a bully with his crew. Could the poet have been one of the mates? Possibly; or perhaps Palmer saw the poem in one of the London Newspapers of the day and jotted it down in the Oriental's ship's log around the time of her sailing. In any event, we hope that you will all enjoy these lofty lines that perhaps have not ever appeared in print before. Or have they? If anybody out there has any information concerning this poem please let us know about it. Clipper ships, Poetry, Silk, Tea, Fire Crackers & Opium too! Oh my!
_______________________________________________________
ECS - We leave you for now with a picture of the Clipper Stad Amsterdam. Go to the site: www.stadamsterdam.nl
________________________________________________________________
